ISTANBUL - Stating that Abdullah Öcalan is the only person to be cited for the solution of acute issues in Turkey, HDK Co-spokesperson Cengiz Çiçek said: that 2024 is the period of growing organizational determination and courage."

 

The people of the world entered a new year under the shadow of wars, crises and destruction caused by nation states. In Kurdistan and Turkey, the year 2023 has been left behind with multiple crises from politics to economy, from health to education, as a result of the deepening isolation on İmralı Island and the war extending from the Federated Kurdistan Region to Northern and Eastern Syria. The state, which spent all their resources on the war against the Kurds, caused tens of thousands of people to lose their lives in the earthquakes centered in Mereş (Maraş) with the concrete cities it created. On the other hand, the people who spent the year healing the wounds of the earthquake disaster left the year behind fighting against war and isolation.

 

In 2023, when the policies of destruction and denial, which are Turkey's founding codes, deepened, the Kurds and their supporters spent 365 days demanding for freedom of PKK Leader Abdullah Öcalan and a solution to the Kurdish issue, which has become a global issue. We talked about the current politics, the developments that marked 2023, and the consequences of war and the isolation politics with Cengiz Çiçek, Co-spokesperson of the People's Democratic Congress (HDK), which aims to create the “Third Way” politics by coming together of labor and democracy forces, minorities, oppressed and excluded against the "monist" understanding of the nation-state mind. Underlining that Abdullah Öcalan is the only person to be referenced for the solution of acute issues in Turkey in 2023, Çiçek stated that 2024 is a period of increasing courage.

 

The year 2023 was a year of deepened poverty and those who seek justice. What kind of a year did the people of Turkey have left behind in these two topics, which are the main agendas of the country?

 

 

The year 2023 was a year in which economic luxury and misery went head to head. As a result of deep poverty and the ever-deepening economic crisis, one quarter of the country's population lives on the hunger line. But on the other hand, a handful of minorities who profit from the poverty of millions live in luxury. Likewise, it is not possible to talk about justice in a place where there is so much social and political inequality. In the year 2023, black money, gangs, and corruption have spread into the justice institution. When we look at the history of the judiciary, which is equal to the age of the Republic, the rot and corruption within the AKP is not something that can be defined only by the AKP. Since the day the foundations of the Republic were laid, there has been a legal order built on lawlessness, injustice, denial and destruction. That is why the legal order has always been used in favour of the sovereign.

 

 

The year 2023 was shaken by earthquakes centered in Mereş on February 6, more than 50 thousand people lost their lives and cities were destroyed. In this period when the state was seen in its most naked form, how did the February 6 earthquakes enter the political record?

 

 

 

Even now, when we look at the cities, millions of people are waiting helplessly. We sometimes feel this helplessness ourselves. To give a correct self-criticism from the opposition, not just a criticism of the system, not raising our voices against this, the failure of the society to take their own precautions and not to be in rebellion on this issue is a matter that needs to be examined very much for us. The February 6 earthquakes showed us that centralist forms of government, a form of government that looks into the mouth of a single man, with decrees having the force of law, are bankrupt. But also, it showed us the indispensable element of an organized society. On the one hand, it showed us how important and needed the Kurdish Freedom Movement's 'Democratic Autonomy' proposal is. The earthquake showed us once again that this government, this mentality is a disaster and that the people of Turkey must be saved from this disaster.

 

 

 

The May 14 elections, which are considered to be of historical importance, also left their mark on the year. In terms of its results, it was a very controversial election for both the opposition and the government. First, what was the outcome for you?

 

 

We also saw our historical inadequacies in terms of the Alliance of Labor and Freedom in the earthquake zone. The signs of our failure in the elections were also seen in the earthquake. To the extent that we cannot socialize alliance and struggle, a competitive situation emerges in which the interests of the relevant organizations are highlighted more and the interests of the organization are more prominent than the interests of society. This situation stands as a fundamental problem that needs to be solved by socialists, revolutionaries and the Kurdish movement in Turkey in 2024. First of all, we need to overcome this. We need a platform that goes beyond the alliance of organizations, that is, reaches the alliance of the oppressed, and will establish the real alliance, the real alliance of all the different identities in these lands, the others, the oppressed, the ignored. The results of the May elections showed that we must engage in a more revolutionary, more practical and more socialist struggle against a fascist government and all anti-democratic administrative devices. We can be successful to the extent that we go beyond the areas where the system restricts us. I observe that the main reason for our failure is not resistance, but that being content with resistance narrows us down and with this narrowing down, we lose the perspective of social power.

 

 

Coming together under the name of alliance constantly turns into election alliances. Why can't the plane you pointed out for unity in struggle be established?

 

 

Unfortunately, in Turkey, there is shallowness in social opposition. One aspect of this is that it is highly organizationally competitive within itself, and the other aspect is what we call it being disconnected from the people. There was an earthquake in which tens of thousands of people lost their lives and millions of people were displaced. Of course, our organizations, our groups, our people stood in solidarity with the earthquake victims, trying to be a salve as much as they could. But if you aim for social power and want to win, you have to set your game big and keep your horizons wide. There is a lack of government perspective in democratic politics and social opposition on this issue. Social contradictions are extremely vivid. In other words, the contradictions in terms of earthquakes, poverty, injustice, Kurdish genocide, equal citizenship rights of Alevis, women's problems, youth problems, and insecurity are so alive at every layer and level. In a period where there are such lively contradictions, the failure of social opposition to rise and to make the desired move within itself remains like a homework on our table.

 

What kind of situation emerged?

 

 

 

The alliance of organizations showed that how alienated the identities were from life and how much they isolated themselves from life, that they narrowed down to professional lives and emerged as revolutionism and freedom struggle in itself. We could not form a struggle alliance, a social alliance. Naturally, all structures that reveal the perspective of social power must also form a struggle alliance. When we looked back, we saw that we, who emerged with the discourse of struggle alliance, could not even establish an electoral alliance. The public also saw this. If the public has not shown enough interest in us today, it is also related to this distrust that we reflect from ourselves. To the extent that you trust the public, show your perspective and vision, and put them into practice, the public will walk with you. Unless we find a way to create an organized society and make it concrete, what emerges is the alliance of groups and organizations isolated from society. This does not prioritize the interests of society. As we enter 2024 and local elections, we discussed this a lot. We drew conclusions. The Pyrrhic victory for the government in the May 2023 elections, which we unsuccessfully contested, was actually a beneficial disaster for us in terms of its results.

 

 

You said a “Pyrrhic Victory”. What was the outcome for the People’s Alliance?

 

In an election where there was so much fraud, we are talking about a period in which the other party's party activities were narrowed down, and all capital groups and bureaucracy close to the AKP were on the field for the election, from the district governor to the governor to the imam. When we look at it from here, of course it is an election that was usurped. An election obtained by theft. So, he didn't really win. Erdoğan was preferred. Erdoğan is also aware of this.

 

Did Erdoğan actually win the election? Or was it preferred by global, regional and some internal dynamics?

 

When we evaluate the government in the context of international hegemony and the capitalist system, despite all its efforts to appear local and national, despite all its bravado, this government has perhaps adapted the most to neoliberal policies, capitalist hegemony, and the capital accumulation regime it produces, and has served it, among all the governments of all time. This is the reason why it is preferred despite all its illegal and immoral character. Because capitalist regimes do not want a democratic regime in Turkey. On the contrary, they expand their own exploitation areas and markets through an anti-democratic regime. The Kurdish issue is also like this. The AKP-MHP government is preferred today because it played the biggest role in the unresolved Kurdish issue. When we look at it in continuity, the AKP-MHP government is another phase of the integration of the Turkish nation state into the capitalist state. We can consider it as a specialized structure.

 

What were the consequences for you of Erdoğan and AKP coming to power once again?

 

The lessons we learn from being in power today are as follows: AKP is a successful government in terms of private war. Their success is not just about developing private warfare, but about our ineffectiveness against private warfare. It's about us being brave in the face of private warfare. As those who paid the price for the attacks against the Kurdish Freedom Movement, we cannot say that, 'The Kurds resorted to force through your force; they resorted to force due to pave the way for actual, legitimate, revolutionary, democratic struggle, legal space, speech and negotiation. Otherwise, AKP is doing their job and knows that they can sustain themselves through banditry, theft and force, because they have nothing else left. It is not a legitimate party. AKP-MHP is putting pressure on our representation in the parliament and on our gains in the local area. But if you pay attention, there is no respite in the municipalities where we are in power at the local level. They  immediately appoints trustees, destroys and liquidates all our organization and achievements there, and does not even let us breathe. The government, which does not have this much pressure in the parliament, does not do this locally.

 

Because as long as you are in power in the local society, revolution, socialism and freedom will begin from there. The government knows that the opposition becomes a threat to them as it gains power locally. When you are in power, you also become cultural, social, political and ideological power. You create another life form that intertwines all the people living there with all their values. That's why Erdoğan said, 'We have become a political power, but we have not become a cultural and social power.' Therefore, we must look for ways to organize a social and cultural power and blend it with our own ideology.

 

 

Are local governments part of this?

 

 

 

Yes. We may have inadequacies, we may have shortcomings, the pre-selection process may have its own inadequacies and impasses in some places. But this will itself is so important. Hundreds of thousands of people in Kurdistan will make their own choice of freedom before the official election to choose their own candidate. The ballot box established by a statist system, but also by the power of freedom. First, they will go to their own ballot box and choose their own candidate. This is something that even the most well-equipped and most powerful parties do not dare to do. This is our difference. This is also a method that shows us the way to become a social power. This also means public activism, it means people taking action everywhere, taking interest in politics again, uniting and organizing around their own problems. When trustees are appointed to candidates of their own choosing, it means that the people protect their own municipalities. 

 

 

As for the opposition within the system, they started with the promise of a "Strengthened Parliamentary System" that embraces everyone, and ended with a defeat, as they themselves admitted, with the nationalism they clung to. What did this policy lead to, and what is Erdoğan's responsibility for his victory?

 

Meral Akşener's departure from the table, all the statements made by İYİ Party members, Kılıçdaroğlu's protocol with the Victory Party... It also showed how determined the statist forces and the forces within the system are on their own ground ideologically. The fact that Kurdish identity, Alevi identity, women's and labor identities as a whole are the subjects of others' own identities in politics, and the political institution's demands for solution of these identities, frightens all forces within the system, from the opposition to the government. Recently, some of the İYİ Party MPs announced that they did not vote for their own candidates. In fact, it is not a person's betrayal of the party they allied with, but it is a result of the alliance within the nation-statist system. From this point of view, we need to organize and expand the independent, truly independent struggle of peoples, beliefs, classes, women and youth. It's not just about Kılıçdaroğlu and Akşener. This is a system issue. In my opinion, a system emerged in the elections based on the possibility of the collapse of the AKP and prevented the picture of democracy and freedom and the forces within the system within the opposition.

 

Because there would be a loss of the statist system. It might have seemed like the CHP had won physically and technically, but with the overthrow of the AKP, areas of freedom would be created for the socialist, women's and all democratic movements in Turkey, especially the Kurdish freedom movement. Maybe we would create our own game from there and create more playgrounds. In my opinion, even if there is a one in a thousand chance, the individuals and forces in the official opposition have taken this possibility into account and made a blow to the current situation. As they entered the centennial year, they came together in the monist, genocidal and assimilation-based nation-statist system of the Republic of Turkey. They signed the contract for this out of sight. They signed a confidential contract process.

 

 

The situation you mentioned shows Turkey's insistence on a nation state built on monism, which is its founding code, for the coming period. PKK Leader Abdullah Öcalan, whom you point out as the main interlocutor of the solution to the Kurdish problem, states that the democratic solution cannot be found within the nation state. Does this also mean insistence on traditional codes in terms of approach to the Kurdish issue?

 

 

 

 

The conditions that gave rise to the Kurdish issue; Capitalist modernity is the nation-statist system created by capitalist modernity to spread the market and exploitation to the capillaries of society as much as possible. The nation-state system cannot sustain itself without its own accumulation and organization. The main reason for the deadlock of the Kurdish issue, not only in Turkey but also in the Middle East, is capitalist modernity itself, which is based on Kurdish deadlock and statuslessness in the Middle East. As it entered its second century, the state of the Republic of Turkey introduced new official identity cards of the AKP-MHP government.  

 

 

What is the matter of this new official identity card?

 

It is turkism, sexism and religiousism. These three concepts were built as a sovereign official identity card. It is now the state's identity card. It is an official citizen ID. It is a reasonable and acceptable citizen identity. Everyone outside these three identities, everyone who objects to this, are the poor, the homeless, the dispossessed, those who are subjected to forced migration, and those who will be subjected to genocide of the Republic of Turkey in the new century. That's why the Democratic Nation paradigm is valuable. The system rebuilt all areas of sovereignty based on the insolubility of the Kurdish issue.

 

What were the repercussions of the lack of solution to the Kurdish issue on the people, Turkey and the Middle East?

 

The deadlock of the Kurdish issue created the poverty, housing issue, labor issue, femicide, faith issue and ecocide. For this reason, the Kurdish issue is the only problem that needs to be solved most urgently among all these issues. Mr. Abdullah Öcalan's Democratic Nation paradigm proposes a solution to the Kurdish issue by addressing all problems at the level of the entire geography, based on these readings. The solution to the Kurdish issue is not only the issue of the Kurds; everyone in Turkey who is disturbed by this system should support the democratic solution of the Kurdish issue. They should be the companion of the Kurd’s struggle for status.

When we look at it from here, the problem is in the system itself, but the solution is in the hands of those who have been objecting to this system for a century. Therefore, if we are going to rebel, if we are going to stand up, all the different identities that have been negatively benefited from this century-old monist republic and who do not really consent to it, need to come together around a political program, a program of struggle and enter the new century. If the Kurdish issue is to be solved, it will be solved this way. As we enter 2024, highly intellectuals, thinkers and struggle groups in many parts of the world read Mr. Öcalan's books and say that they are inspired by his thoughts. All the analyzes and theoretical writings of the Kurds leader are becoming the subject of academia around the world.

 

 

In Turkey, reading is still considered as a "crime"....

 

 

 

 

Yes, it is still forbidden to read his books here, but Zizek (Slavoj Zizek) is talking about Öcalan, who says the one should vomit everything against capitalism. As we enter 2024, having promised to fight against the absolute isolation policies on Mr. Öcalan, to ensure Mr. Öcalan's physical freedom, and having entered this move process, these goals we are talking about are not things that can only be achieved with some physical activities. We have to look for ways to become free in thought and mentality. We have to remove the obstacles to all intellectual productions, theories and propositions that Mr. Öcalan presents to the people of Turkey and Kurdistan. When people become acquainted with these ideas, their perception of Öcalan will change. We have seen with our own experience how everyone who was previously distant from Mr. Öcalan has transformed. Bringing different identities and different thoughts together in these thoughts is a necessity of fighting against isolation.

 

 

 

In 2023, the opposition within the system and the government propagated ideological nationalism through opposition to Abdullah Öcalan. We have a new election before us. Does this kind of politics work? Can a policy that does not center on Abdullah Öcalan and, naturally, the democratic solution to the Kurdish issue be successful?

 

Denial about the Kurdish issue manifests itself through the approach to Mr. Öcalan. Mr. Öcalan has given identity and character to the Kurds in modern times. He pioneered character building and has an extremely valuable place in the Kurds’ world of meaning. If you're looking for the truth, this is it. Deny this as much as you want, the Kurds say that Mr. Öcalan is 'my leader' and 'the combination of all values'. Supporter of Kurds see Mr. Öcalan as the most valuable thing that has ever happened to the world's humanity and the oppressed. In what part of the world and at what time period in the world was a person, from whom no news was heard for nearly 3 years, embraced, cared for and brought to the agenda this much?

 

There are those who deny this truth, there are those who respect this truth, and there are also those who embrace this truth and become their supporter and comrades. Actually, this is the fight. Just as the Kurdish issue is discussed without discussing the Kurdish actors, all discussions about Mr. Öcalan are held in the absence of Mr. Öcalan. If this system is to be truly democratized, if Turkey is to become a democratic republic, if a democratic system is to be built in favor of the people, the Kurdish issue have to be solved democratically. The past hundred years have shown us that the system in Turkey will not be democratized unless the Kurdish issue is resolved democratically, the Kurdish peace is socialized, and a democratic peace process is entered. In fact, as long as the Kurdish issue remains unresolved, cultural barrenness and corruption are rampant in Turkey. The informal system, which emerged as an exception, has now become the normal rule. This country is ruled by gangs, money launderers and those carrying out unregistered economic activities. It is ruled by gangs and mafias. This unregistered system produces itself out of hostility towards Kurds and Öcalan, and out of Kurdish genocide.

 

This situation has now turned into absolute lack of communication on İmralı Island. There has been no news from Abdullah Öcalan for 34 months. In the last meeting with him, Abdullah Öcalan warned, "The state is playing wrong." What does this state mind that leaves Abdullah Öcalan uncommunicative lead to?

 

 

 

Leaving Mr. Öcalan without communication means leaving the Kurdish issue unresolved. Mr. Öcalan has historically struggled for a democratic solution to the Kurdish issue. He is a person who has a serious focus on how the democratic system will come into being in Turkey. That's why it is left unaware. Because Mr. Öcalan is the only person we can refer to in solving the current acute issues in this country. When Mr. Öcalan says, "I will solve the Kurdish issue in a week." it is not a frivolous statement. There is a concentrated, grounded, historical experience and real knowledge on this subject. All this knowledge and suggestions are locked up in the island prison with him, there is no island. If there is no island, there is no solution, if there is no island, there is genocide and war. That's why İmralı Island is the black hole of law and the black hole of politics.

 

When we look at it from here, we need to say this very clearly. A process of struggle, a process of action aimed at Mr. Öcalan's physical freedom has been initiated. Mr. Öcalan has been in İmralı for 25 years. That is, for a quarter of a century. A situation rarely seen in human history. The concept of torture and isolation no longer meets this current situation. The İmralı management technique is not limited to Mr. Öcalan. Gradually, it turned into a social siege and isolation, unleashing on society what it had learned and accumulated. We can prove this on legal grounds. We can prove this in the execution regimes of prisons. We can show it with the new arguments they developed about how to govern a society. İmralı Island is the first prison not managed by the Ministry of Justice. It is connected to the Prime Ministry Crisis Center. Now the whole society is governed by the Presidential Decree. When we look at it as a whole, the issue of ensuring Mr. Öcalan's physical freedom means overcoming the obstacles in front of the whole society's own struggle for freedom, both intellectually, mentally and materially. We need to believe this. That's why, as we go to 2024, what we actually need to do is see it as a way to break the siege on ourselves. All Kurds have to break the Imrali isolation to solve their own issues.

 

By concentrating every day, thinking about this issue every day, and taking the risk of walking every day. For example, The Gemlik March showed this: In case of determination and in search of practical new ways and methods; In fact, there is something very clear if we raise an internal struggle to get rid of our own memorizations and clichés. That means our future is open. We have to act with this self-confidence. To become a stronger organization, to strengthen our institutions and organizations, to make them more determined and disciplined, to live together with society, as a society, to achieve this... We are people who have struggled for freedom. We are a society that has paid the price for its freedom. This is so real, our lives are at stake, our future is at stake, and the relationship established with Mr. Öcalan is directly related to this. Therefore, when we consider it from here, if we can live like the people and be in society, seek all kinds of initiatives, all kinds of ways and methods that will ensure public organization and public activism in the fight against isolation. This process will pave the way for itself by accumulating and concentrating. As we enter 2024, the period is not a period of organizational determination, growing courage, finding new things again, but reminding us of what we have forgotten.

 

Let's not forget the 'You Can't Darken Our Sun' action, let's not forget the courage and commitment there. Let's not forget the Gemlik Marches we held in the past, let's not forget the Newroz celebrations and serhildans (uprisings) in Kurdistan. Let's not forget the Kobanê Serhildani. The trip was made by the children of these people, and Kobanê Serhildani was made by the children of these people. To meet the values that make us who we are, to meet in revolutionism, to meet in patriotism, to meet in dedication... To push the conditions for creating ourselves as individuals and as a society. Because we are also prevented from being a society. I believe that if we look for ways to be a people and a society again, we can achieve a final victory against the Imralı isolation in 2024.

 

 

Even though it was a difficult year for the people, it was also a year of resistance. Do you have a message for 2024, a new year?

 

Let 2024 be a year in which the struggle for democracy and freedom of all oppressed people in Turkey, the Middle East and the whole world will grow. At the same time, let this be a year for the Kurds in which Mr. Öcalan physically embraces his own people. This is not impossible. I think that if we look back to our own history and remember our own deeds and achievements, we can have more faith that this revolution will march to victory without interruption. I hope that the year 2024 will bring democracy to Turkey and freedom to Kurdistan.

 

MA / Diren Yurtsever - Esra Solin Dal